We Can Do Hard Things Podcast (Apple Podcasts) AND Couples Therapy (HBO)
Learned about Dr. Orna Guralnik on the “We Can Do Hard Things Podcast” (we’re all listening to that already right?).
“It would be great for people to think of both the challenge and beauty of their couplehood as the challenge of dealing with otherness. We don’t connect to our partners to find ourselves. I mean, what’s the point? That’s not interesting. There’s no growth in that. There’s nothing new in that. There’s nothing to be had by just having a relationship just with oneself. That’s just narcissism, which leads nowhere……This thing that we do, which is that we reach out towards the world and fall in love and want to connect with someone else, means we are inviting otherness into our lives and that is important. That is the thorn that will make you grow, that will make you heal, and go beyond yourself. That’s the journey, the journey is to negotiate otherness. In the crisis that always gets created between a couple, it’s always ultimately a crisis about otherness. How do you deal with the fact that your partner is different from you? It’s what you need and it’s what you will struggle with. It’s in a way you could imagine it that you’re creating your own mini political system. What kind of political system do you believe in? What are your ethics about difference? Try to have that guide you.”
-Dr. Orna Guralnik
“Isn’t that interesting because when you think about the otherness, it either leads to this pattern of kind of righteous, I am correct, and you are wrong blame cycle or it leads to I see that you’re other and incorrect and therefore, I have married the wrong person.”
-Amanda Doyle
“Some people say that we’re kind of wired to understand the world by creating differences in our mind. We have to create distinction to be able to even have any kind of thought. There’s some way that we always have to separate what’s this and what is it not? What I am is not you, what you are is not me. There’s some way that it’s kind of inherent, but then what is the fear? There could be all sorts of fears and you could talk about like early childhood fears that get triggered. What is the fear if I depend, will that other abandon? If that one is other than me, is there immediately the question of who is better? Is there immediately a question of hierarchies and power? If we’re different, who’s on top? Who’s exploiting? Is there a fear of the person’s otherness means I’m not entitled to exist? There’re many ways that you can imagine what this difference and what the fear brings up and then there’s the question of your life experiences and how you’ve been indoctrinated to respond to difference. “
-Dr. Orna Guralnik
“for example, a very classic thing or if your partner is, let’s say, somewhat neuro-atypical, they’re somewhat on the spectrum and they don’t exactly use the language of affect of emotion the way you do. It’s much more confusing for them in those situations, the ask for a certain kind of verbal empathy, which is a very basic wish, ask, need, for some people that’s like, what are you talking about? I don’t know how to do that. It’s like milk from a rock. It’s not because they’re withholding, it’s not because a power dynamic, it’s just they’re not wired that way. It’s a very complicated ask for them. In that situation, what would be in another context a very legitimate wish, it’s a more complicated one. What do you do with that? You have to think of it intersubjectively. On the other hand, in other couples, it can be someone who’s very capable of being empathic and verbally available, but because of a certain dynamic that got created, I don’t know, too much criticism, power, this, that, or the other, the fountain is closed and then it’s a very different kind of conversation…….let’s start from how do we work it out? First of all, trying to figure out between two people, what is going on here? Is what you’re asking really something that your partner it’s just not in their making? They’re not made that way, that’s a very difficult ask from them. Think of it of like asking someone who wears glasses to take off their glasses and see better without glasses. It’s just kind of possibly the wrong ask, in which case, the third way is how do you figure out the thing you need and not bring it to your partner, but take it somewhere else? How do you see your partner for who they are and what can you focus on in what’s going on between you and your partner that is kind of an open channel and an ask that will bring a lot of good exchange between the two of you? Rather than ask your partner to take off their glasses and see, talk to them about listen to music together, what are good places in which you exchange goods between you?
-Dr. Orna Guralnik
Phoned in question: “I’m Keaton and I have a silly little question for you. Long story short, how do you tell someone that you love so deeply that they are annoying? I have a boyfriend of about five years who gets so very interested in niche topics and loves to share what he’s learned with me, which I love, but my word, can he go on and on. It just so happens that he picks the moments where if I’m doing the dishes or making the bed or I’m actively involved in something and he’ll just talk at me. It’s like I don’t need to be there, like he just wants get information that’s so excited out. Am I the problem? Is it my issue that my brain and ears like grow legs and run away from the situation when he starts telling me about a new political issue that he’s discovered? I love him so much, I don’t want to hurt him, but sometimes I just have to say, “I don’t want to be talked at right now.” Give me any advice you have or just tell me I’m the problem and shut up. Love you so much.”
-Keaton (caller)
“That’s great, that’s great. I guess to some degree, we’re talking about like self-absorption versus relatedness. We have this concept in the analytic world, you’re probably familiar with the concept of transference, there’s also the concept of countertransference, which is what the analyst feels what their experience is while sitting with their patient. We consider countertransference a very important source of information. If you’re feeling one way or another with your partner, you might be struggling with something with a feeling like, let’s say, boredom or I want to run away, but you also have really important information for your partner in that feeling. The question is how do you artfully and kindly use that information to send back feedback to your partner? If one of you is self-absorbed or talking on and on and not reading cues, that’s important information. I think you’d want to know that you’re doing that. I mean, you can still choose to keep doing that, but it’s important information. Rather than run away, find the right time and the artful way to translate your experience into information for your partner, like when you go on and on, I feel irrelevant, I feel like I’m not in the picture, I’m not exactly sure what to do with myself. What’s going on between us in those moments?
-Dr. Orna Guralnik
If you can’t get enough for Dr. Orna Guralnik on this podcast…check out the whole show on Showtime.
Love love love this . Couldn’t stop watching it. Real couples. Real therapy. Who’s your favorite?
